Nope.

Pay to win is bad. Go Away.

So that the older, richer players can buy skill points with their massive in-game wealth and get even further ahead of newer players? No thanks

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with richer players being able to buy skillpoints.

No, not at all. Buying an officer mod doesn't suddenly allow you to fly amarr battleships when you had no ammar skills at all five minutes ago...

It's not the end of the world if you have to train for it, like everyone else then.
Your idea is nothing new and doesn't solve any problems. (No, you wanting SP NOW isn't a problem)

Which it does not do, it allows older, richer players to accelerate thier own training far, far more. Classic Malcanis law.

will never happen

been discussed many times over the years.

the conclusion is:

1) instantly nobody would have ISK

2) instantly PLEX would be worth a bajillion ISK

neither of which is helpful to the game

How does it help a new player to 'catch up' if older players are suddenly gaining millions of extra SP?

This.

Plus OP you still do not mention a problem, only a reason you think we need it. Which isn't a reason for change and only creates a problem.

But a new player in a frigate with complete frigate skills is STILL fodder. They're still flying a frigate, and they don't know the game mechanics...

Everyone with balance in mind cares.

The game benefits from players with longevity in mind, not want it now get board 20 minutes later. Eve is not WoW in space and it's skill system is nothing like it either. It is one of the best systems I've come across and allows new players to compete very early on.

That is a problem with your perception, not the skill system.

Maintain the gap maybe, they're certainly not closing it. Who do you think can stump up the ISK for a PLEX faster, me with my 80 million SP, or a newbie with five million?

Let me ask a question. Why? If all you want is a mechanic to help new players catch up, there are far better solutions. You know, ones that don't totally and completely destroy the entire point of the skill system.

This idea is horrible. I'm going to wardec your corp OP

Do you even know how long it takes to gather 600M+ for a new player? This would not help new players in absolutely no way whatsoever, instead it makes it all a lot more harder for them. Not just catching up on skill points, but also affording a real-money free gameplay via plexing their account(s).

I can't believe how shortsighted people can be.
Everyone even remotely suggesting that buying SP for real money should be a valid idea should have his forum permissions revoked immediatly.

OP Summary: I want instant skillpoints and I wish to hide my desire for instant gratification under the guise of helping noobies. Even though my proposal ironically benefits older and richer players exponentially more.

- How are you going to stop veteran players from using there already substantial amounts of isk to buy up the plex market in game in the first hours after the announcement of the change? This would inflate the price of plex and remove a significant amount of players from the game within months.

- Using ISBoxer a player can control many accounts at the same time, performing the same action, CCP has not deemed this against the EULA. What is stopping a rich player from making an army of alts and 'solo' pvp you with dozens of similarly named characters? While this can happen now, not many people want to put the time or effort into putting dozens of toons in the same ships with the same skills.

- Lets say I'm a new player. I download the game, buy 100 mil skill points (approx. 720 dollars) at this point I have effectively maxed out my skills for pvp. I buy a shiny fit faction battleship looking for a fight, and end up getting concorded or ganked because I don't understand the game mechanics. And the losses will continue until I quit or learn the very hard way. How do you address this?

In condemning EVE for having a small playerbase, OP demonstrates he is unaware of the old adage "quality over quantity".

EVE is not small because of skill training. It is small because it is very niche, because it is not as casual as those larger games, because it doesn't have the same "everyone gets a cookie" mechanics that the great unwashed masses get so angry without. It does not hold your hand, it does not solve the problem for you, it does not do a great many things that industry wisdom says your game must have, must do, must be if you want it to be this year's biggest blockbuster mega-hit.

It does not - and should not - appeal to everyone.

I think we're getting to the root issue of why you think this is ok. You dont really understand the concept of economics.

Its just like buying a PLEX and selling it for ISK. When you do that no ISK is created, it's just transferred from one player to another, and these player transfers follow the laws of supply and demand, the price changes on a daily basis. This is called an open market.

Now imagine with me if CCP came out and said "we're implementing a new program, you pay us $20 and we'll give you 750,000,000 ISK" Well they would have to spawn it into the game to do that, and at first I imagine this would go very well for them; they would see several people shelling out the cash to make this happen, but over time as more and more ISK was just dumped into the system haphazardly, inflation would begin to show. Having a billion ISK would mean less and less because everyone has a billion ISK, soon prices would start to rise everywhere across new eden because the ISK has begun to lose its buying power. Soon the $20 for 750 million looks like a bad deal because even day 1 noobs have that after doing some mining. This is called inflation

See when someone buys a character from the character bazaar, no additional SP are created. This means that if say tomorrow 50,000 people all wanted new characters, the price would go up because there is a limited supply.

What you want would be for CCP to give you SP when you spend a PLEX which is an entirely different thing. CCP would have to essentially spawn new SP into the game and give it to you out of nowhere. This means that SP is slightly more common every time you do that. This would make SP worth less and less until it was worthless.

All that being said, you're probably just going to ignore this post or somehow ignorantly justify you way around it because you want to continue to believe what you want to believe without regards for logic or facts.

Appealing to 50,000 people isn't "not appealing to anyone" as you put it. It's apealing to 50,000 people. If you had your way, EVE would go the way of SWG NGE. You'd kill it just because you're too simple to comprehend the larger implications of the effects of your demands on anything bigger than yourself.

Luckily for me and all the other people that understand and actually enjoy playing EVE, CCP will never acquiesce to your request. The reason they won't is because they're not stupid. I do notice, however, that the people who post this demand of yours are generally pretty dumb but then that's to be expected, I suppose. Anyone with an ounce of nous wouldn't suggest such a suckingly stupid thing and certainly wouldn't keep arguing for it.

You're completely missing his point. Your complaint is that you want to buy SP in order for new characters to be useful, but by allowing such a thing you instantly raise the required amount of SP for "usefulness" by an order of magnitude or more. Your "limits" are meaningless. The fact that you don't see how useless they are underscores your naivete and your lack of understanding of how EVE's community works.

Let's say that this idea is implemented and suddenly the bottom limit for "useful" jumps to 150m SP. EVE is a long-term game played (mostly) by people who have long attention spans. If you need to wait three, four, five, six months in order to reach a combined trained and purchased total of 150m SP to be useful, then that's what others will expect of you.

Your solution creates many, many more problems and solves none.

Nope!

plex for SP is bad and you should feel bad, its basically Pay 2 win.

start new account
pay for plex
instant vet SP amounts.

it would kill the character bazaar
it would make RMT more of a problem then it already is
it would make plex prices go stupidly high meaning those who plex their accounts wouldnt be able to play anymore and the market would be hit hard not to mention the balance of isk In and out and Cash in too

That's the worst and most useless reply in the history of these forums. You should feel ashamed of yourself for taking such a lazy, cop-out route as that.

I won't get into how nobody asked for and indeed nobody needs that omelet.

not so, CCP goes to great lengths to keep the price of plex under control, with specials and bundle deals for PLEX, the price of plex has fallen from a high of like 650mil per down to about 610 per and its still dropping.

If the OP's idea was implemented in form yes the price of plex would soar for a few months then fall again as the inital demand ends / people start running out of isk/money to spend on it. end result that plex would probably end up about 200-300 mil higher than current i guess.

the op's idea could (and i say could not anything else) be good if it could be implemented in a limited form, say once the character has reached 3m SP the option would be removed from that char. yes it could result in a flood of ~3m SP chars being dumped on the bazaar but it would remove some of the grind for the lower SP chars who are most likely new players.

alternatively CCP could just grant all new accounts 60 days of enhanced learning time where there skills train at a faster pace. this way we could avoid all the issues with plex/rmt/char selling etc etc etc.

50,000 is better than 25,000 which is what I suspect would happen within a short amount of time if you got what you wanted. Then 10,000... 5,000 and CCP would have to shut down the servers from lack of revenue.

You might be unaware of SWG. Starwars Galaxies was a pretty awesome game. It was deep, had a market similar to EVE's and was genuine fun to play.

Then a load of people like you started screaming on the forums things like:

"It's too hard. I want it to be easier"

"I want to be a jedi"

"Why does my stuff have to break after I've used it for ages? I want my stuff not to break... ever"

"It's too hard to gain levels. I want to get more xp for the time I'm playing"

"Why can't I just be top level? Why do I actually have to play the game?"

As in, things like you're saying.

So, SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) gave the screaming masses what they wanted. The people who loved the game for what it was left. The people who were screaming on the forums for things to be changed turned out to have very low attention spans, not want to play in a game where the people who knew what they were doing were leaving and didn't really give a crap about the game anyway and they had to shut down the servers and the game died a death.

Moral of the story here is EVE is a more established game with a loyal player base who know the difference between good and bad changes, are smart enough to be able to see from past experience what dumbing down the game would actually do and whilst you might not see it they're only actually against the stupid change requests which would be detrimental to the game overall. Listen to them. Stop trying to screw the game we all love just because you don't understand it. Don't be one of the idiots that screwed SWG and then moved on because they never really cared about what they were crying about in the first place. This is why people will argue with you and in fact not stop arguing with you.

These people telling you that what you're asking for would be detrimental really do know what they're talking about.

I am an EVE player, an account-holder since 2008, someone who pays careful attention to what I see and someone with a proper understanding of cause and effect in EVE, gained slowly over time. In short, I am someone who is sufficiently educated in the nature of the proverbial beast to make reasonably accurate judgements regarding what is or is not obviously detrimental to EVE and its community.

Those millions who found EVE lacking, who you now attempt to crusade for despite their total lack of interest? Not all of them declined to subscribe (or continue their subscriptions) because of the skill system. Of the ones who did find the skill system to be their reason for leaving, how many more would have left anyway because of something else? Even if this change was made, there would still be another change and another change and another change to be made, all in the name of "mass appeal".

I don't think you actually care about EVE at all. I don't think you actually care about other players at all. I don't actually think you really want to help anyone.

I think you just want to feel special and important because you play a game with more subscribers than WoW and you're willing to destroy EVE in order to get what you want.

Get out.

Why don't you think about how this can possibly backfire on you, the community and the game in general, and then you'll arrive at the reasoning that CCP have for not introducing this in the countless previous times that it has been mentioned.

Hal.

This is your problem. How is it that I (and I assume most of the people disagreeing with you) didn't have a problem with it? I joined long before the new player experiences were introduced and I still didn't have a problem with it. Now, I agree that the new player stuff is better than before, having played through it but I simply can't agree with you about being able to buy SP in any form whatsoever.

It isn't needed. I didn't need it. No one that I know who plays or has played EVE needed it. Why is that, do you think? Why is it that we didn't need to buy SP but you seem to think that anyone who isn't currently playing the game needs it? I didn't need it as I was learning to play the game at the time and so the speed of progression was correct. The only reason that wouldn't be so is if you're not talking about new players but instead you're really talking about yourself.

This is my guess: You don't give two craps about new players. What you want is the ability to boost your alts immediately to the point that they're useful. You don't want to wait for the time it would take a new player to learn how to play the game as you don't need to for your alts as you've already learned. You don't want to come on the forum and say that as you know you'd get seriously booted for it so you come here claiming to be all altruistic and only thinking of the new players.

Nice.

let me tell you about how hordes of goon scrubs are running and dying into capital fleets assembled by much smaller N3 coalition. Right at the moment your statement is simply not true.

OP's replies to our posts are largely a blend of mocking, trolling, sarcasm and blatant dismissal.

I believe we're onto something.

So are you denying the economic principle that increasing the availability of an item without creating a new way for that item to be destroyed will cause the value of that item to go down?

It doesnt matter if you limit it to purchasing 1 SP per week, thats still 1 SP per week that shouldnt be in the game! Inflation is inflation is inflation.

Again and again you show a blatant ignorance or disregard (not sure which) for basic economics . . . perhaps eve isnt the game for you.

Agreed. What OP wants is already possible and this thread is a duplicate on top of that.

because its actually not the same, just wonder why someone would ask for a thing and then, back it up with the stupid argument that it already exists, in the same time.

I've just read through this thread again and it's quite interesting. The OP obviously doesn't see the big picture. He and the few who are like him are utterly outnumbered by those that can see precisely why CCP have chosen to make the SP system as it is and thus there are several factors which when added together mean that the OPs request will never happen.

1) CCP don't want to do it. If they did, they'd have already done it because it's been suggested many many times and on paper, ignoring all the complicated nuances regarding the knock on effects of this change, it does appear to be a money spinner for CCP. Luckily, CCP can (like most of the players) see why this is a totally stupid idea, obviously.

2) The majority of players don't want it to be done. If CCP did this they'd have another revolt on their hands. They know where their revenue comes from and it's predominantly from the long term players, not from new blood. New blood is great and all but the loss of the long term players will hurt CCP badly and immediately, as has been proven.

3) CCP chose this method for skill progression. It's been working for 10 years. As far as I remember not one of the CCP employees has deigned to comment on any of these "SP for Plex/RL$" threads. I suspect it's because they're never intending to do it and really couldn't give a crap about the fools who demand that they do.

All in all, no more arguement is needed. This thread, like every similar one before it, will disappear into the thread pile that is the F&I forum and within days be forgotten by everyone who wrote in it.

I wish you good luck in your endeavours to get SP for PLEX, Dr Sraggles. Many better than you have tried and all have failed so I don't rate your chances but like a duelist who knows his opponent is blind and carrying a banana instead of a pistol I'm going to wish you good luck.

Fly safe o/

sucks hairy ram genitalia

Okay, let's try this.



You want to get skillpoints for PLEX, because the idea of spending time to get the skills is something you don't agree with. So, essentially, you disagree with the time-investment aspect of EvE. Okay.


Imagine it gets put in. A precedent has now been set. A way of not just mitigating, but ignoring the time investment has come into being. The player base demands more. After all, it has been introduced once, it can be expanded.

So, what else would you like to remove the time investment from?


Let's see. Moon mining and reactions, yes they take a pesky amount of time, let's have PLEX for reactions! Titans! Those cheeky little buggers, taking so long to build, let's have PLEX for Supercap Proliferation! Capturing sov space! How dare I have to wait for SBU's and TCU's and reinforcement timers, pass me the PLEX young Timmy, it's time for PLEX for Obscene Sov Wars!


Is your feature needed by anything other than your impatience, will your feature have any negative fallout to anyone other than yourself, will it add anything positive to the game?

Hal.

Okay, let's try this.



You want to get skillpoints for PLEX, because the idea of spending time to get the skills is something you don't agree with. So, essentially, you disagree with the time-investment aspect of EvE. Okay.


Imagine it gets put in. A precedent has now been set. A way of not just mitigating, but ignoring the time investment has come into being. The player base demands more. After all, it has been introduced once, it can be expanded.

So, what else would you like to remove the time investment from?


Let's see. Moon mining and reactions, yes they take a pesky amount of time, let's have PLEX for reactions! Titans! Those cheeky little buggers, taking so long to build, let's have PLEX for Supercap Proliferation! Capturing sov space! How dare I have to wait for SBU's and TCU's and reinforcement timers, pass me the PLEX young Timmy, it's time for PLEX for Obscene Sov Wars!


Is your feature needed by anything other than your impatience, will your feature have any negative fallout to anyone other than yourself, will it add anything positive to the game?

Hal.

So im just clarifying your position . . . youre saying dumping a bunch of SP into the game out of nowhere wouldnt cause the current SP in the game to be worth less?

youre saying it wouldnt be any less rare or special to have a 100 million SP toon after this change?

I just want to clarify that is the assertion you're making because if so, you're the one who needs econ 101 . . . actually forget econ, just consider going back to math 990

This is entirely pay to win. This would break the fundamentals of the game. The anticipation of logging in to a new skill or building up to a new ship is the best experience. Maybe you have just become abrupt to the fact that players in eve don't dig their wallets in deep to get in a marauder. This is instant gratification.

If time is precious, you should not play a game built on the idea of growing a character in a chartered map with the new discoveries lore wise like wormholes and new ship development.

Plex is a way for people who do not have money out of game that are typically struck in the rather poor economy, or would rather not spend it on a game, to play the game. Raising the prices of plex by theoretically allowing people to say jump into capitals first hand and have NO IDEA what they are doing. Tbh that would be nice to kill off more scrubs.

TL;DR. This idea has been dug up over and over for years so my new and brilliant idea is to put it to rest.
P.s. That means quit bitching, train skills.